Silk Road forums
Market => Rumor mill => Topic started by: northsidepk on March 22, 2012, 01:09 am
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Went to pick up some valium off vendor "flipside".
New vendor, but seemed to know the GPG encryption ropes
Has a multitude of listings.
Vendor has 0 transactions
I put my order in the cart and checked out.
sent my GPG and vendor refused to do communicate using SR or SR forum even encrypted.
Vendor insisted on e-mail communication
I refused and cancelled the sale.
What do you think?
Possable LEO?
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Don't know really, but I think they just want you to email them for a personal GPG key.
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Hard to know for sure, but some of the prices are a little too good to be true and there's no pictures of the products. I don't understand why they can't peddle their wares through the SR site using like the rest of the vendors here do. If this vendor were LEO, would there be some specific aim in insisting that buyers communicate via email? Would it be worth it to harvest Tormail or Hushmail addresses?
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maybe will email you back and tell you to contact him on topix lol
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Quite a bit of info can be gained even through supposed anonymous e-mail services.
This is why I refused
Do business like everyone else here
post pics, gain a rep, use GPG through SR and SR forums just like all the other successful vendors
Don't fix what isn't broke.
They claim its for extra security, I say it leaves a gap for LE to gain info
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I've gotten bad vibes from them since they came around. This email business is shady to say the least. I say stay away! That, and they don't have any opiates for sale!
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Follow the flipsides review thread,
Users with next to no posts sticking up for a vendor with 0 successful transactions
LEO anyone?
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Of course all this is only rumormongering, but the huge variety of their listings and the way they cover every base (yes they have benzos, and 2C-XXX, and ketamine, AND DMT) in a way that no other seller can do... almost too good to be true. Would be great if it was legit, but I wont be the first to dive into that pool.
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Of course all this is only rumormongering, but the huge variety of their listings and the way they cover every base (yes they have benzos, and 2C-XXX, and ketamine, AND DMT) in a way that no other seller can do... almost too good to be true. Would be great if it was legit, but I wont be the first to dive into that pool.
Right?!?!
But at the same time, not the usual suspects for LE to go after either.......
Diversionary tactic?
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Right?!?!
But at the same time, not the usual suspects for LE to go after either.......
Diversionary tactic?
I've only been doing this a month or so, but imagine what kind of PR the govt could put out if it busted a few small buyers. I see stuff like "these people ordered a half gram of DMT off the net using Silkroad, now they're going to federal pound-your-ass prison for the next five years." Something like that would put a little fear into me, that's for sure. Its also super-paranoid type talk, but with the government stranger things have happened.
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It's definitely not the typical LE angle, but hey you never know....till you have bracelets on........
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It's my understanding that Flipside has currently been demoted from vendor status...
IDK what lies in the future of Flipside.
:)
nomad bloodbatrh
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Thank You Nomad
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Nice catch thanks!
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Could tormail be compromised?
Seemed that was the goal of this vendor
To communicate with buyers about transactions through tormail
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sounds proper sketch to me, i would have cancelled as well i reckon
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Its late so this isn't written well but its written fast. Since he came around I thought he was sketchy. To much ill do it all samples for everyone etc just seemed weird. Then the prices and his way of keeping his buyers "Safe". This was written to flip side and although I don't buy anything on here if he is in fact leo, I don't want to stick my dick in beehive.
This guy is sketchy no way around it.
Everything someone asks your like "yea no problem ill do it"
You want samples just email me
You want anything I can do it.
Want a drug, I got it.
Want a free trip to you local county jail......... Oh fuck yea we got that!
Then all these special things 10% off, free shipping, INSANELY LOW PRICES For Example 7 bucks for a hit of L.
Oh yea everything out of silkroad and escrow.
Your either a Cop or a Scammer, and this says cop.
Next to each of our products is a product code, including two letters and two numbers similar to "[IE-20]". This is how you will be able to differentiate between your various gifts when you receive them. Any similar looking or otherwise hard to distinguish products will always be individually labeled with their associated product code before being shipped. This can be particularly helpful if your order were to include two or more equal amounts of similar looking white powders that we Know And Love.
Yea right just like how cops mark money in drug deals.
Next evidence for submission
As mentioned, it is our policy to designate each new customer a unique, randomly generated contact email. It has been specifically assigned to your account and is inheirently tied to your own email address. Save it, add it to your email client, but please do not post or otherwise share it anywhere or with anyone. If you do, your account will be deleted and we will be forced to reconsider your status as a customer. We honestly hope this never happens, but this is the only way we can ensure that we are able build a secure, individual relationship with each new customer.
Your designated contact email has also been assigned it's own unique GPG keypair, associated only with your account. Please do not share your new key with anyone.
Im no security expert but your going to make your the buyer an email acct that they have to use to communicate with you? Don't let anyone else see it or use it? Why is that so you can always prove it is the buyer using it or it wont uphold in court? Oh god fear mongering, if anyone uses it or see we will delete you as a buyer AND YOU WONT GET YOUR DRUGS. "Cop holding 5 hits of acid in there air"------> So if you the junkie wants his fix you must use this.
Next everyone just read this shady shit he wrote as his Standard Operating Procedures
We ask you place custom orders whenever possible in order to limit the amount of listings we must post publicily, and to keep this as private an endevour at possible.
Please keep a copy of our price list and product codes to reference, preferably encrypted, and please delete all traces of our communications as soon as you are 100% satisfied with your transaction.
Just read that and tell me it isn't shady
Please do my friend. We are trying to get the TMA family it's own...uhhh..."genre"?
We are unfortunately too high at the moment to figure it out...
Sorry....but you know what we mean... ;)
Peace
The Flipside Crew
Oh yea cops don't get high so throw a shameless were are so high we forgot how to work our hands and use keyboard line out there.
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Guess bold dont work ohwell hopefully you can read it and where I wrote.
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northside:
We honestly do not understand at this point why you are posting so much negative feedback about us when we have not yet even had a chance to establish our reputation on the Road? What it your motive? We have offered to answer any questions you might have, multiple times.
You have posted this negative thread, "many" other negative post's, simply because we feel it is safest to use GPG with Tormail? Along with many other vendors here? We don't understand your intentions.
We must question at this point if you are perhaps trying to destroy our reputation before we can even get started? We simply don't understand your motive's? :(
Yes we carry a wide-variety of well-priced products. That is because we have been in business for nearly 20 years, and have many great sources, and prices.
We do not sell in bulk, and have only listed small amounts (around $50 worth) of our items for now. We also offer free samples of our products for the $6 cost of shipping.
And yes, we have offered a 10-15% discount for a limited time to get our business started here on SR. That is "Basic business practice 101".
What more can we do to better establish our reputation on the Road?
We aim to "meet or beat" most other domestic vendor prices as a business tactic. It is simply fair capitalistic competition. We intend to offer some of the lowest domestic prices available on the Road.
northside: We are seriously starting to question if you have alternative motives at this point. You have posted an eccessive amount of negative reviews and threads before we have even had a chance to establish ourselves as a vendor.
Please give us a moment. We intend to provide some of the finest customer service, product quality, selection, and prices on the Road. If you feel it's "too good to be true", we ask you simply request a free sample to see for yourself before posting any negative reviews.
To all those that question our extra security precautions, stop and think about it. Tormail is anonymous. Any (Tor-based) IP used to sign up there is untraceable. All of our emails are encrypted using GPG so all personal communications stay exclusively between us, and any potential new customers. We feel this is "far" safer than relying on the 'encryption' the SR PM system provides, especially if the SR server were to ever become compromised.
We feel assigning unique contact emails and GPG key's is an "obvious" security improvement. For one, it ensures if a private key were to ever become compromised, it would be useless to use with any other customer accounts.
These tactics have worked "very" well for many years for some of the very best, and most successful, underground vendors we know. Therefore, we have chosen to follow their protocol, along with adding a few additional security precautions of our own.
For anyone who feels our security procedures are "sketchy" or "shady", please let us explain any aspect of our protocols before posting anything negatively about them. We honestly feel they are a "step forward", and would like the chance to explain our reasoning behind them before you post anything negative.
Please ask us ANY questions you like. We will answer them as soon as possible.
And we "of course" sell within escrow, and follow ALL other rules the Road requires of us as a vendor.
We would just sincerely like the chance to publicly address any concerns any fellow Roader's may have! :)
Please give us a chance before jumping to any conclusions.
Thank you.
Peace
The Flipside Crew
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Im no security expert but your going to make your the buyer an email acct that they have to use to communicate with you? Don't let anyone else see it or use it? Why is that so you can always prove it is the buyer using it or it wont uphold in court?
buster:
We think you are perhaps misunderstanding our procedure.
We only assign you a unique Tormail address for you to contact us at, not for you to access or use yourself.
This keeps your unique contact email known only between us, along with your unique assigned GPG key.
We feel this is preferable to using a publicly posted "primary" email, and public key, like many other vendors.
You can contact us from any email address you feel my friend. :)
We hope this address's your concerns?
If not please let us know. We will do our best to explain all of our protocols to all members.
Peace
The Flipside Crew
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you say you've been doing business this way for a while, so do you have an SoS page for us to check out? surely someone would be able to vouch for you there.
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wretched:
Please clarify what you mean by an SoS page please.
But for obvious reasons, we can unfortunately not reveal any personal information regarding any past or ongoing business activities, but we can say that many of us are well published both on Bluelight, Erowid, ect, as well as in print in "The Entheogen Review".
We were members of The Bible, and a moderator at The RCML/RCMB, among others, in case anyone remembers those forums from back in the day?
We were also the "crafty" designers of a certain "resource" website associated with Poppies.org a few years back.
If there is any other way we can anonymously "vouch" for ourselves, please let us know. We would like to ensure that all fellow Roader's know that we are as legit as they come. :)
Otherwise we must simply continue to send out free samples for now, and wait to establish our reputation on the Road.
Thank you for your concern.
Peace
The Flipside Crew
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how can you have been around that long and not heard of SoS?
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pipedreamz:
Positive feedback from established members should be coming very soon! We are already sending out free samples of our L for feedback.
More to come. :)
Thank you for your interest.
wretched: We apologize. We are not "all-knowing". Would you care to inform us more re: SoS?
Thank you.
The Flipside Crew
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SoS=safeorscam.com where members post reviews of sellers so that others can decide whether or not to do business with a seller.
also, what is the benefit of each customer having a separate keypair? If one key is compromised, it means that either your system or YOU have been compromised, meaning that all keys are compromised anyway.
you can't expect people in an anonymous forum to trust you based on using a system for security used by sellers that nobody has ever heard of and claiming to be a member of boards that are gone and cannot be vouched for by anyone.....unless you are Kaiser Soze
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wretched:
Thank you for your reply.
Other than in the "real world", we have been doing business online (yet only privately) with long-time, trusted friends and customers we have known for many years.
This venture on SR is a new endevour for us, and we realize we have a lot to prove as a new vendor. And we intend to! :).
Therefore, we would have no review on SoS. Besides our prior experience vending online to friends for years, I suppose there is really no other way for us to "vouch" for our online legitimacy.
So we must let time determine our reputation for us as positive feedback rolls in over the next week or so.
RE: keys
We feel assigning a unique key to each customer not only eliminates the possibility of MITM attacks (by eliminating the chance of a "fake" public key being possibly spread publicy), but also has many other benifits. For example, each key works ONLY with each unique account. Assigning individual contact emails and keys allows us to (if need be) instantly delete any member account we feel may be aiding or abeding law enforcement.
As mentioned in another thread, a few years ago we were once attempted to be blackmailed for 20K. By enacting this policy, it has allowed ourselves, and our other vendor friends, to reduce the chances of being the victims of extortion in the future.
If our "very" well hidden, Trucrypted dual "hidden-volume" flash drives were to ever be found (not likely), we'd have a whole other set of problems on our hand at that point anyways. We do everything in our power, following industry-standard protocol, to ensure this will never be an issue. Regardless, they would first have to get our "hidden" TC master password to access any keys or other sensitive information.
Rest assured we take more precautions than most to avoid this situation from ever happening. Even if any keys were to be compromised, it would not affect customer security as we regularly delete all emails from our customers.
Our set-up is really no different from using a single email and key like most other vendors. It is just an added layer of security we feel is benificial for everyone involved.
We realize we are a new vendor on the Road, with 0% feedback at the moment. Since we have no way to "vouch" for ourselves at the moment, we will happily wait for positive feedback from respected members to roll in before we can further establish our reputation on the Road.
Thank you for your thoughts and concerns! :)
Peace
The Flipside Crew
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you got blackmailed for 20k and this is your solution to it, sorry but i dont see the logic in that. and also are you generating the PGP key and giving it to the customer, if so that gives you their private key and you can read all their private msgs, doesnt seem logical at all to me
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Auguest:
We took care of the blackmail issue in our own way, and have since instated this policy to enable us to instantly delete any accounts we feel may be potential threats to our security, LE or otherwise.
We generate a unique GPG keypair for each account, and share that public key with each customer so they can encrypt their emails to us. We of course use each customers own public key to encrypt our emails to them. No private keys are ever shared.
Does that clear things up?
We realize our policy's may be a bit confusing at times, but we hope to explain them entirely for all SR members to understand.
Thank you for your concern. :)
Peace
The Flipside Crew
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I don't get the point why there should be LEO only if they use only encrypted e.mail? I don't understand this. Why should they interested in me. In my country cops aren't allowed to sell drugs at all. So they could simply say. Sorry man, not doing international. BUT they don't......
Cheers Bubble
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Yes bubble.
Indeed. Why would international LE be interested in a small time buyer like you? In a random foreign country.?
Again, it is our opinion that LE is MUCH more likely to set up as a "buyer" to investigate vendor's, than vice versa. They simply don't have the budget, desire, or manpower to pursue "small-time" buyers.
The concept of LE posing as a vendor is pretty much ridiculous in our opinion. There's "nothing" in it for them, unless they want to bust bulk buyers. And just use trustworthy vendors to make your purchases.
Vendor's should be FAR more aware of "buyers", more than vice versa.
Just our opinion! ;)
Peace
The Flipside Crew.
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Flipside:
My interest with you is to protect the community and its members.
In the last 15 posts you have spouted so much B.S its unbelievable.
Your credibility is totally shot.
Your had no idea what SoS is yet you've been in the game for years? nope, don't jive.....
You want to do business via e-mail, just leaves buyers vulnerable.
I don't know what you are, LEO or otherwise
BUT, it is easy to see you are up to no-good.
you could be phishing info by using buyers e-mail addy's, I dont know....
But you just cant show up here with 0 successful transactions
and demand buyers e-mail addy's, and refuse to use the established method for transactions.
Obviously SR thought the same seeing as your vendor account was shut down, and rightfully so.
My interest in you is keeping the B.S. out of SR, this place works and works well.
And definetly does not need you to re-invent how business is done here
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Since he came around I thought he was sketchy. To much ill do it all samples for everyone etc just seemed weird. Then the prices and his way of keeping his buyers "Safe"....if he is in fact leo, I don't want to stick my dick in beehive.
This guy is sketchy no way around it.
Everything someone asks your like "yea no problem ill do it"
You want samples just email me
You want anything I can do it.
Want a drug, I got it.
Want a free trip to you local county jail......... Oh fuck yea we got that!
Then all these special things 10% off, free shipping, INSANELY LOW PRICES For Example 7 bucks for a hit of L.
Oh yea everything out of silkroad and escrow.
Your either a Cop or a Scammer, and this says cop.
Next to each of our products is a product code, including two letters and two numbers similar to "[IE-20]". This is how you will be able to differentiate between your various gifts when you receive them. Any similar looking or otherwise hard to distinguish products will always be individually labeled with their associated product code before being shipped. This can be particularly helpful if your order were to include two or more equal amounts of similar looking white powders that we Know And Love.
Yea right just like how cops mark money in drug deals.
Next evidence for submission
As mentioned, it is our policy to designate each new customer a unique, randomly generated contact email. It has been specifically assigned to your account and is inheirently tied to your own email address. Save it, add it to your email client, but please do not post or otherwise share it anywhere or with anyone. If you do, your account will be deleted and we will be forced to reconsider your status as a customer. We honestly hope this never happens, but this is the only way we can ensure that we are able build a secure, individual relationship with each new customer.
Your designated contact email has also been assigned it's own unique GPG keypair, associated only with your account. Please do not share your new key with anyone.
Im no security expert but your going to make your the buyer an email acct that they have to use to communicate with you? Don't let anyone else see it or use it? Why is that so you can always prove it is the buyer using it or it wont uphold in court? Oh god fear mongering, if anyone uses it or see we will delete you as a buyer AND YOU WONT GET YOUR DRUGS. "Cop holding 5 hits of acid in there air"------> So if you the junkie wants his fix you must use this.
Next everyone just read this shady shit he wrote as his Standard Operating Procedures
We ask you place custom orders whenever possible in order to limit the amount of listings we must post publicily, and to keep this as private an endevour at possible.
Please keep a copy of our price list and product codes to reference, preferably encrypted, and please delete all traces of our communications as soon as you are 100% satisfied with your transaction.
Just read that and tell me it isn't shady
Please do my friend. We are trying to get the TMA family it's own...uhhh..."genre"?
We are unfortunately too high at the moment to figure it out...
Sorry....but you know what we mean... ;)
Peace
The Flipside Crew
Oh yea cops don't get high so throw a shameless were are so high we forgot how to work our hands and use keyboard line out there.
Hello Buster39:
We would like to reply to your response.
First of all, what is wrong with offering a grand opening "discount" offer? Many vendor's on the Road offer discounts all the time? It's also common "business practice" in the real world to offer "sales" from time to time. I myself have run multiple successful businesses, and I feel it is good "business practice".
And sorry, we would just like to offer our L at $7 a hit. The prices here on SR are ridiculous lately! I'm from back in the day when I could go to an outdoor and get 10 for $20, anytime. We just want to bring back those times, and prices, to an extent. The Silo-bust changed the entire L economy unfortunately. :(
And what is wrong with placing a custom order? I do it all the time? It is common practice, and the 'only' method many vendors not on SR use. It allow's the buyer to "custom" build their order. Nothing wrong with that! :)
Our product labels will in no way "identify" you, as you suggest. They are simply so you can identify the various, similar looking white powders you might receive.
Again, we of course deal entirely within escrow and follow all other rules the Road requires of us. We are here, at their graciousness. :)
And yeah. We were high on a sample of MXE we'll be stocking in the near future when we posted that. and...and your point is? ;)
And I believe we have already addressed all of your other concerns.
But thank you for your response and concerns. :)
Peace
The Flipside Crew
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northside:
Once again, you are entitled to your opinions, but can we "please" just end this here?
There are many other members here who do not agree with your opinions, including the 30+ potential customers I have received so far.
We hope to get our vendor account reinstated ASAP (as soon as we hear back from the SR Support Team) as we feel the entire situation is a simple misunderstanding.
But we do truly apprieciate your concern. :)
Peace
The Flipside Crew